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Post by duckyaisha on Mar 11, 2010 7:33:17 GMT -5
I have to agree with Ten. Bluestar's personality is WAY different than Bluepaw's. Bluestar is very calm, intelligent, thoughtful, and kind. Until she went crazy. On the other hand, Bluepaw is obnoxious, bratty, thinks she knows everything, and basically the type of character you want to strangle.
““I don’t remember any other apprentice catching prey on their first try.””
"Would I be right in thinking that added with everything considering Bratpaw’s birth and development, AND this, that it just screams Sue a mile wide in neon red letters?"
Yes! I despise Bluepaw so much now...
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Post by Ten on Mar 11, 2010 20:41:49 GMT -5
"I might still be a kit if Pinestar hadn’t suddenly decided to make us apprentices."
--
Also in the news: woman SUDDENLY decides to eat a sandwich.
"We were told Sweetkit (who shall henceforth be known as Candy Cat) was a tortoiseshell."
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Tortie tabby, mayhap.
"yet she was silenced?"
--
Sure. ...okay, I don't know if you can silence someone who isn't making noise, but you can prevent them from making noise, I'm thinking.
"And you want to send them out in the cold and wind when they don’t want to go?"
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Why?
"pinkish gray"
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><
"Destruction for us all!"
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Narm.
"I have to agree with Ten. Bluestar's personality is WAY different than Bluepaw's. Bluestar is very calm, intelligent, thoughtful, and kind."
--
Or so she seemed. Remember, she's the cat who let Rusty into ThunderClan. Still, illogical as she was, she didn't whine and complain near as much -- though some may argue she grew out of that.
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Post by duckyaisha on Mar 16, 2010 9:41:40 GMT -5
"Or so she seemed. Remember, she's the cat who let Rusty into ThunderClan. Still, illogical as she was, she didn't whine and complain near as much -- though some may argue she grew out of that."
I consider that part of her going crazy. Besides, she didn't know she had just unleashed the Gariest Stu to ever Gary Stu.
"And you want to send them out in the cold and wind when they don’t want to go?"
Yes, because in a REAL battle, the weather always cooperates.
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Post by Ten on Mar 16, 2010 10:18:59 GMT -5
"I consider that part of her going crazy."
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Then when do we see her when she's not crazy (nor stupid in youth)?
"Besides, she didn't know she had just unleashed the Gariest Stu to ever Gary Stu."
--
She knew she was letting a kittypet into her Clan as a reward for disrespecting it.
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Rolo
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Post by Rolo on Mar 18, 2010 12:46:28 GMT -5
I've begun reading this again.
It's incredibly poor so far, saddeningly. I mean, seriously, the writing is awful. I've loled several times at the awfulness. And, for someone who can turn off her criticalness with ease, that's not a common occurance. The sentence, 'Leaves, earth, moss, prey - flavours so rich she could tate them on her tongue.' made me piddle myself laughing XD. It's such a wtf sentence... moss and earth are rich flavours? You taste flavours with your tongue? I'd never have known that! I'm pretty sure you meant 'scent' not 'flavour' there, dear.
That and it's incredibly boring. I mean... seriously, we've had several chapters where nothing happens, or a poor excuse for an event happens. In one chapter, Bluekit went out with the deputy, warriors reported to him that there were scents of enemies in the territories, the cat ran off and LEFT HER ALONE on the top of a huge rock/cliff (which is described as a sheer rock face and he had to guide her up), she goes back to camp and is suddenly made a warrior.
The... hilarity of all that is just... overwhelming. I had to read it 3 times to comprehend that the deputy had left her behind, in the middle of a forest she's never been in. It just seemed... too idiotic, especially since the cat caring for her was a DEPUTY.
On a similar note, this book has further solidified that there are male stocktypes and female stocktypes that are just... not varied upon.
Male include the 'loyal strong ones', the 'overly ambitious/eager to fight evil ones' and the snarky, sarcastic ones (little sign of those in here just now, but I am only on chapter 7). Those are the most common. Any cat that is not a main character will be the first one, whereas anyone 'evil' will incorperate the second one. Stonepelt and Sunfall were practically the same, part of the first stocktype.
Female consists of 3 types, with very little variation outside these rules (thought ALL the books). The 'caring/motherly', 'Snarky/sarcastic/attitude/pro-feminist type' and 'personality-less' (for any non-main female characters they need to say a few lines). Moonflower is one of the first category (which holds so many females, it's impossible to count... since every female becomes instantly mothery when she moves into the nursery). Snowpaw and Bluepaw are the second (and Bluepaw is a carbon copy of Jaypaw).
Hilariously, all the cats also have exactly the same type of humour. If you don't get what I mean, simply read one of the books. The humor is always a 'Light-hearted jibe at another's expense'. Why can't we have someone with a sadistic sense of humor, or someone who makes poor jokes?
This all doesn't make for interesting reading.
Bluepaw has no consistent character. Simple as. I'm slowly coming to despise her. Please, Erins, sarkiness and selfishness and intense fear of doing wrong do not mix into a good character... especially not the way you do it.
It is increasingly feeling as if the Erins are pulling settings out of a hat and including them. The forest Bluepaw is in is unrecognisable as the old warriors forest, which is strange as it should be near enough the same. It's incredibly disorientating. That and the descriptions of climbing a 'ravine' made me lol... this is set in england, ja? You're unlikely to get cliffs here, in the middle of the New Forest.
On the upside, after the initial kit-fiasco, the actual maturing and training of Bluepaw is much more realistic. It accellerates at an even pace, she talks about being disorientated in the forest, we see her doing actual apprentice duties, and she shows apprehension which is totally refreshing. Unfortunately, the Erins decided to throw that away by then having her catch an enormous squirrel which everyone fawned over in the most... sickening and unrealistic way, I felt ill. There must have been at least 6 cats who said she was amazing for it -_- The Mary-sueness is creeping in, steadily, ESPECIALLY since every time she comes into contact with a cat, they greet her as if she's someone worth acknowledging.
On another note, there have been some reasonably pleasant scenes (like the collecting moss and putting it in the elder den one), and there are points where I begin to enjoy it. Unfortunately though, most of the time it makes me want to hit my head against a wall.
I hope it improves.
Thar, my review of the past... 7 chapters? Hope you enjoyed it. If you're interested, I could post more... XD I was just enjoying ranting.
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Post by Cloud on Mar 18, 2010 16:24:10 GMT -5
Oh, continue ranting here if you like, Rolo. It's funnier than my journals and far more educated. I don't mind at all. o3o
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Post by Ten on Mar 18, 2010 17:26:11 GMT -5
-looks through binoculars- Rolo sighting!
"moss and earth are rich flavours?"
--
Maybe that's what led people to believe that Hollyleaf died.
She enjoys biting the dust.
"It just seemed... too idiotic, especially since the cat caring for her was a DEPUTY."
--
Explains why ThunderClanners think Firestar's so brilliant. They've had worse morons in the past.
"Male include the 'loyal strong ones', the 'overly ambitious/eager to fight evil ones' and the snarky, sarcastic ones (little sign of those in here just now, but I am only on chapter 7)."
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Eager to fight evil? That's vague. What do they perceive as evil?
And you know, if a writer wants to stick to lazy cliches, that doesn't mean they have to stick to such a narrow variety. There are tons of cliches to choose from.
"Those are the most common. Any cat that is not a main character will be the first one, whereas anyone 'evil' will incorperate the second one."
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Main villains = ambitious. Always. And without much motivation behind it (Tigerstar "went evil" because his father became a kittypet? No comprendo).
"(which holds so many females, it's impossible to count... since every female becomes instantly mothery when she moves into the nursery)."
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Except for Squirrelflight, who doesn't count since she never really had kits. It makes sense for queens to adore their kits, granted, but to all have the exact same parenting style?
"Snowpaw and Bluepaw are the second (and Bluepaw is a carbon copy of Jaypaw)."
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Isn't that bizarre? I don't know what I expected Bluepaw to be, but for sure not a brat.
"Why can't we have someone with a sadistic sense of humor, or someone who makes poor jokes?"
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One of those ones where nobody laughs and they all stare at you and everything gets awkward? Or even just have a misunderstanding (a real kind of misunderstanding, not one of those INSERT NEEDLESS DRAMA HERE misunderstandings)? But that would mean the Clan isn't one big harmonious group. It would mean... a smidgen of minor conflict. -cue organpipes-
"this is set in england, ja?"
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Not anymoreee~
"they greet her as if she's someone worth acknowledging."
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Wow.
Rolo, do you remember the scene you mentioned a while back wherein Brambleclaw turns ambitious out of the blue? I'm thinking of building a case that despite what they preach, the Erins believe in prejudice based on lineage.
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Post by duckyaisha on Mar 18, 2010 19:18:23 GMT -5
Isn't that bizarre? I don't know what I expected Bluepaw to be, but for sure not a brat.
---x---
Exactly! It's like she's a completely different cat. I always thought Bluepaw would be the quiet, obedient type.
Now that you mention it, it's true. There are only a few stocktypes for each gender, and they get used over and over and over and over again.
What I don't understand is how come the books were set in England, but aren't now. I read the second series, and I don't remember them crossing an ocean.
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Rolo
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Post by Rolo on Mar 19, 2010 16:36:03 GMT -5
Explains why ThunderClanners think Firestar's so brilliant. They've had worse morons in the past.
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Indeed... it was... well, it was one of those '*drops open* NO-ONE could be /that/ stupid, surely?
Eager to fight evil? That's vague. What do they perceive as evil?
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There was totally supposed to be a / between fight and evil. 'Eager to fight/Evil' cats. Ya know, any cat who is eager to fight is pretty much labelled as being instantly in the wrong. Some great examples of this are Mudclaw (series 2) and Thistlekit.
Main villains = ambitious. Always. And without much motivation behind it (Tigerstar "went evil" because his father became a kittypet? No comprendo).
---
Not always in fiction... but always in Warriors.
Isn't that bizarre? I don't know what I expected Bluepaw to be, but for sure not a brat.
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I've begun to think the Erins are actually incapable of writing young inexperienced cats as anything but brats or loyal without question. I'm dead serious, here. Bluepaw, Snowpaw, Thistlepaw, Leopardpaw, Jaypaw, Cloudpaw, Squirrelpaw, Crowpaw are all brats to varying degrees. In the first series, it wasn't so bad... but as time has gone on, they're either brattish or personalityless. This could perhaps be down more to lack of writing expertise (because Bluepaw's character, in the first 7 chapters is completely all over the place) than a concious thing.
However, that said, in chapters 8-11, things improve for a character so much that I was pretty much in awe, simply because the Erins had displayed /some/ degree of talent (I'm not saying that snarkily, over the beginning of the book... I was beginning to doubt they had any at all). Bluepaw's character, which had /really/ been fighting for an underconfident, scared kitty who feels everything is beyond her, reappears WITHOUT brattish tendancies. It was immensely pleasing, it truly was. It sounded like a young Bluestar, like someone I could like and sympathise with (and after reading a quarter of a book with 1 single character I sympathise with, Pinestar, it's a relief). In fact, I seriously suspect that these chapters were written by another Erin... because even stylistically, it was more in control and better.
More on that in a later post, methinks.
]
One of those ones where nobody laughs and they all stare at you and everything gets awkward? Or even just have a misunderstanding (a real kind of misunderstanding, not one of those INSERT NEEDLESS DRAMA HERE misunderstandings)? But that would mean the Clan isn't one big harmonious group. It would mean... a smidgen of minor conflict. -cue organpipes-
----
Yes. ANYTHING other than a 'light-hearted joke at someone else's expense'. I've found 3 jokes in the past chapter from different cats that were exactly the same, humor wise, YES, Erin, I KNOW the cats are in a clan, but they wouldn't conform quite that much!
Sure, Ten, I can type up some quotes on Brambleclaw's 'ambition is inherited and so I'm now swiftly going to be come a jerk' speech for you at some point. All power to you on a post on that.
At some point I'll post a proper reply for the past few chapters, possibly after Cloudie has posted her journals up to at least chapter 8 (I have absolutely no interest in rereading the first 7)
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Post by Ten on Mar 19, 2010 19:02:21 GMT -5
"What I don't understand is how come the books were set in England, but aren't now. I read the second series, and I don't remember them crossing an ocean."
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They crossed mountains; that's it. They were supposed to be in England at first, but now... they're in some imaginary place.
"There was totally supposed to be a / between fight and evil."
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Ohhh. Gotcha.
"'Eager to fight/Evil' cats. Ya know, any cat who is eager to fight is pretty much labelled as being instantly in the wrong."
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That might be what tvtropes would call a Broken Aesop, considering the way the Erins have been treating violence (Firepaw's desensitization in his first battle, for one example, and the way they praised his initial aggression at Graypaw).
"Not always in fiction... but always in Warriors."
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Yes, yes, that's what I mean.
"This could perhaps be down more to lack of writing expertise (because Bluepaw's character, in the first 7 chapters is completely all over the place) than a concious thing."
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Although expertise isn't the same as experience, it seems like they've had enough time to improve their skills.
"I seriously suspect that these chapters were written by another Erin... "
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It's a conspiracy.
"Yes. ANYTHING other than a 'light-hearted joke at someone else's expense'. I've found 3 jokes in the past chapter from different cats that were exactly the same, humor wise, YES, Erin, I KNOW the cats are in a clan, but they wouldn't conform quite that much!"
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inorite? They're a family, not a crew of mind-clones.
"Sure, Ten, I can type up some quotes on Brambleclaw's 'ambition is inherited and so I'm now swiftly going to be come a jerk' speech for you at some point."
--
Excellent. Thank you.
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