(The Debate)

[Ten]

"My brother is Frozenheart. Oh, but you wouldn't have known his name, now, would you? He's the deaf cat with a white pelt.

"Is not there some degree of trust involved in a rat hunt? You have to be sure the cat will not steal from you or abandon you if the hunt becomes perilous.

"Loss of life is always possible. It's the measure in proportion you should be concerned about, Frailheart. What do you mean by 'unbalance'?"

[Gosh]

"Ah, then I did go on a rat hunt with him earlier today," Bronzefoot meowed with a nod. "But I never trust other cats on rat hunts. I eat my food fast, and if they abandon me, I run away as well if there aren't enough cats to finish off the rat."

"I mean extreme loss of life - enough to severely decrease the number of cats," Frailheart meowed in an exasperated tone. "And by unbalance, I mean that things won't be the way they should be."

[Ten]

ooc| -gives Gosh a point for starting the debate-
bic|

"And what do you mean by the way they should be?" Woodstripe inquired. "What about the formation of a Clan would catalyze a massive decrease in our population? Why would cats want to harm one another? What abuse could come from authority? These walls were built because of an old tradition of never thinking - is that tradition present now?"

[Darky [Megan]]

Orangestorm sat up straight. "It means that everything should stay the same as it is," he replied in a gruff voice. "That's the way it should be. The formation of a Clan would start up a massive decrease in cats because it creates a rift between non-Clanners and Clanners, which could lead to lotsa complications. What if the Clan cats decided to get a bit too used to their 'power' and 'unity'? What if the leader of the clan decided to kill off non-Clanners so their Clan would thrive? What would happen if Clan cats or non-Clanners decided that the opposin' side was taking a little too much food?"

Redstream cast an annoyed glance at her brother, who took no notice whatsoever, and said, "I don't understand what you last asked, Woodstripe. How were they not thinking?"

[Ten]

"Now Orangestorm has also joined the thought-path that we shouldn't want a Clan because some cats don't want a Clan? This does not explain why you do not want one.

Redstream, allow me to clarify: you know the story of the old Clan, do you not? How the leader and deputy ordered the Clan to create the walls which we now live within? Also mentioned in the elders' tales is that all the cats adhered to strict rules and were obedient to everything the leader commanded, never thinking for themselves. Can you say that cats do not think for themselves now?"

[Gosh]

"Yes, we think for ourselves now," Bronzefoot meowed. "Assuming the stories of the old Clan are true - I personally think they're rubbish - the last leader shoved us in this prison. That shows that there was a leader whom did bad things to us, and that's assuming the stories are true. I just think our ancestors thought up that story and passed it along. I think I've already said this, Woodstripe, though I'm unsure if you were here at the time, but I think the moral of that story is that leaders can be bad."

"The fact that other cats do not want a Clan actually is a reason why I don't want a Clan. However, I will add other reasons: for instance, many of us do not trust other cats." Frailheart paused for a minute. "And for good reason. I think you'll agree that there are more than a few cats who steal and scavenge. Do you want those kinds of cats in your Clan?"

[Ten]

"And you know why the leader and deputy did it, do you not?" Woodstripe purred. "They were in love with each other and that was against tradition. Do we have that tradition now? No, therefore it cannot be rebelled against. Now why do you think elders would fantasize something like that?

"As for your question, Frailheart, I think of them not as 'kinds' but as misguided individuals who can be corrected."

[Gosh]

"To show us that having a Clan would be bad," Bronzefoot meowed, staring at her. "Didn't I just say that?"

Frailheart purred in amusement. "Surely you're not so egotistical as to believe that you alone can use a few words to change other cats' personalities, Woodstripe?"

[Ten]

"Not all elders are against Clanhood, Bronzefoot. I'm curious: how long ago do you approximate the legend was fabricated, if fictional?" She turned to Frailheart. "Wot, personalities? Those are well ingrained, whereas I spoke of changing actions. What is it that you imply?"

[Gosh]

Bronzefoot raised his eyebrows. "A long time ago. How long, I cannot say - for though I believe this world is the only world and has existed since the beginning of time, I do not know how old time is." 'I'm beginning to sound like Woodstripe,' he thought with a scowl. 'Time to go.'

"Well, I cannot stay. Perhaps I shall meet you again sometime - maybe not." Bronzefoot padded off, glad to be rid of company.

"I imply that actions cannot be changed so easily as you imply," Frailheart meowed while she nodded a farewell to Bronzefoot.