(The Debate)

[Ten]

"Clanmates would not have to be friends. They would, however, protect each other and each other's prey. Perhaps, yes, the rat population would decrease somewhat. What with the orderly system, this would be noted and dealt with," Woodstripe stated. "...Am I mislead, or are those against Clanhood now taking more issue with hunting methods than the idea of a Clan itself?"

[Gosh]

Spiderpaw shrugged. "I'm only making suggestions. Of course, all cats would vote on how they wanted the Clan to be."

"So once the rules of the Clan were decided, they couldn't be changed? That doesn't sound good. I mean, what if the cats today decided something that the cats of tomorrow didn't like?" Frailheart challenged. "And why protect others' prey? I mean, if most cats were in a Clan, it wouldn't be their prey, now would it be? It would be the Clan's, wouldn't it?" She narrowed her eyes. "I still have issues with the idea of a Clan itself. I'm just going along with the current topic of discussion."

"I agree completely, Copperthroat," Bronzefoot meowed. "In fact, I don't know about you guys, but I don't think there is anything outside the walls. Either there's no life out there, or simply just nothing at all." He looked at each member of the debate for a moment. "And I also still have issues with the idea of a Clan."

[Darky [Megan]]

"It would seem so," Redstream said, in reply to Woodstripe's last comment. She then changed topics, "As I've stated, a clan would be like a big family, and in all families there's bound to be small fights and whatnot." The she-cat stopped talking for a milisecond to glance at her brother.

Speckledclaw grunted impatiently and spoke up, looking at Frailheart. "Of course the rules of a clan could be changed," she said simply.

Orangestorm did not say anything, but got down and curled up, listening closely.

[Ten]

"If the cats decide to change something, they shall change it. Also: yes, it would be the Clan's prey; what belongs to the Clan belongs to all in the Clan." The tabby turned to Bronzefoot. "If you want to know what's outside these walls, you can go to one of the cracks and look for yourself. So then, Bronzefoot, Frailheart, what are your unspoken issues?"

[Gosh]

"Small fights?" Frailheart asked. "You're saying that there would be fighting in the Clan? Excuse me, but I thought that one of the purposes of the supposed Clan would be peace." 'If they're trying to convince me that I will be safer in a Clan, then they're not doing a very good job,' she thought. After a moment, she added, "I don't have confidence in your assurance that dictators will be removed soon after they show signs of being a dictator."

"I don't take orders from any cat except myself. I don't think any cat could be trusted with leadership," Bronzefoot stated flatly.

[Darky [Megan]]

"Of course the purpose of a clan is to ensure general peace," Redstream said, her patience wavering. "but there's definitely going to be minor fights from time to time. Nothing can be peaceful a hundred percent of the time!"

"If there's no life outside these walls, then how did the rats get here in the first place? Why are there rats running in and out of the cracks?" Speckledclaw questioned.

[Ten]

"No one could force Clanmates to like one another. However, I don't expect that cats in a Clan would unsheathe their claws and aim to do another harm. If I am incorrect, then rest assured that fights would be less common in a Clan than outside of one because of the sense of unity and obligation brought about by Clanhood. Would someone now explain to me what harm a leader could do, in specific terms?"

[Gosh]

"The rats were always here. So were us, and the crickets and lizards," Bronzefoot meowed. "And a leader could eat and drink more food and water than what he or she was supposed to. Or perhaps kill and torture other cats. And if they had a band of followers - easily gotten if they were willing to threaten other cat's lives - they would have an iron grip on the Clan."

"How can you ensure cats' safety if there are fights?" Frailheart asked. "And Woodstripe, how do you know that a sense of unity and obligation would be present in all cats?"

[Ten]

ooc| This thread feels crowded. Maybe a few cats could leave or the assembly could break into smaller groups.

bic|

"Bronzefoot, you are concerned that the leader would grow fat? Do you not trust yourself to be able to foresee what cats would be that greedy and foolish? Are you not able to recognize traits before they cause problems? As for torture and murder, I see no motivation any cat could have for this. As I stated before, no one does anything without a reason.

"Now Frailheart, being in a Clan gives cats something in common with one another. This causes unity. Clanhood dictates that they respect and protect each other. This causes obligation. What reason would anyone have to go against these principles? Any such cat would not be allowed to remain in the Clan."

[Gosh]

"I said earlier that I trust no one. As Copperthroat said, anyone can pretend to be kind and a perfect candidate for leadership, hoping to gain power." Bronzefoot narrowed his eyes. "Perhaps a leader could be slightly insane, but like I said - someone could hide their true personality. And I don't mean insane in that they might think it was possible to get out. I mean insane in a different way." He visibly shuddered, remembering his father.

"So you would simply expel the cat, making him or her a danger to the non-Clanners?" Frailheart asked. "I bet they wouldn't like that."