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Post by zelda on May 9, 2009 20:43:45 GMT -5
((I kind of got that message about Patchfur.))
Fadedpelt turned towards the new she-cat with a look of interest. "Who's arguing?" she asked mildly. "I'm not arguing. However, these two - " she gestured to the two toms " - are. You're right, though. Arguing doesn't solve anything." She looked pointedly at Patchfur and Shortwhisker, as if to tell them, 'Cut it out.'
"Anyway," she continued, still speaking to Spiderpaw for the time being, "I am Fadedpelt. It's a pleasure to meet you, Spiderpaw." After this, she decided to cut directly into the argument. "A leader usually isn't just chosen. Oftentimes, they have to earn their rank. And also, though your plan has never been proven to succeed or fail, that still means it could fail disastrously," she informed Patchfur, before answering the question on her standings. "I'm for the idea of a Clan, and I honestly do think a leader would be a good idea." She withheld the information that she, in fact, wanted to be leader, as Patchfur seemed so opposed to the idea, and she didn't want to start a conflict.
Yet.
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Post by duckyaisha on May 10, 2009 5:58:35 GMT -5
"Yes, my plan could fail disastrously," Patchfur admitted, "But we don't know. No one's ever tried it. However, the leader-and-deputy has been tried, and it did fail. Besides, there's such a thing as lying. A potential leader could decieve the Clan, making them think that they were a good candidate for the position until they were a leader. Then they could do whatever they wanted to the cats under their control. Though the leaders have to earn their rank, what if many cats want to be leader? What if they all have the necessary skills to be leader? Then how is the leader chosen?" Patchfur asked.
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Post by Ten on May 10, 2009 14:53:00 GMT -5
"By w-whichever one is b-best," Shortwhisker answered, as it was obvious to him. "And th-the leader and d-deputy system didn't f-fail. It j-just had some f-flaws, which can be t-taken care of. But your p-plan will f-fail because th-there always has t-to be a leader. Even if you d-don't start w-with one, a leader w-will arise." He lifted his black-and-white chin with his eyes closed, confident that this was the case. "I'm g-glad at least F-Fadedpelt underst-stands."
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Gosh
Young Warrior
noisy cricket {1}[M:160]
Friends, as they say, may come and go, but high-powered laser weapons are forever.%\1\%
Posts: 791
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Post by Gosh on May 10, 2009 16:11:57 GMT -5
Spiderpaw nodded. "Not everyone is very independent. Some cats require a leader, someone to advise them on how they could help the Clan that day. Shortwhisker is right - we don't have to conform to the old Clan exactly. Flaws can be fixed."
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Post by duckyaisha on May 10, 2009 21:09:35 GMT -5
"How would a leader know how I can best help the Clan? They haven't spent as much time with me as I have, and wouldn't know as much about me. It just doesn't make sense for someone else to make decisions that I or any other cat could make by themselves. You're right, though Spiderpaw. Some cats want a leader, but some don't . We have to think about all the cats. There has to be some sort of compromise," he meowed to Spiderpaw, who was, in his mind, much more rational and able to compromise.
"Shortwhisker, how is it that you know with absolute certainty that my plan will fail? The only way to know that is if you've tried it, which you haven't. The leader and deputy system didn't have a few flaws. It had a big problem. The leader and deputy were the only ones with power, they abused it, and look where we are now. That's why I think we should let every cat have power," he replied, hoping that Spiderpaw would now understand. He knew Shortwhisker was hopeless.
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Post by Ten on May 11, 2009 20:46:36 GMT -5
ooc|
"He knew Shortwhisker was hopeless."
--
That's why ya love to hate him. ^^
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"The leader would kn-know b-best because they're in ch-charge, so they know what ev-veryone else is d-doing at the same t-time. That way you d-don't have a whole b-bunch of c-cats doing one th-thing and no one doing th-the other. B-besides, your plan has bigger p-problems," Shortwhisker asserted. "Are you r-really so s-stupid that you c-can't understand that without a h-hierarchy, things are a m-mess?"
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Gosh
Young Warrior
noisy cricket {1}[M:160]
Friends, as they say, may come and go, but high-powered laser weapons are forever.%\1\%
Posts: 791
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Post by Gosh on May 11, 2009 21:04:36 GMT -5
"I can see your point, Patchfur. You complain that a leader could be corrupted. And that could be so. But they would be removed from their position when it became apparent that they were not right for the job anymore." Spiderpaw paused to catch her breath. "However, with your way, everyone would have some power. Therefore, at least one cat would want more power, and they would slowly make sure that they got more power - by force if necessary. Without a leader already in power, that corrupted cat might get his way more easily."
Another idea came to her, and she added, "Also, what if two cats decided they wanted power? They could start fighting or something. A Clan without a leader is almost equal to the anarchy we have today."
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Post by duckyaisha on May 12, 2009 6:08:38 GMT -5
"Yes, but the same thing could happen with a normal Clan," Patchfur pointed out, ignoring Shortwhisker's irrational comments now. "There are only two cats in the Clan that have power. If three cats want power, that third cat that doesn't get the spot is going to be very angry. The deputy might even be upset at being chosen as the lower-rank cat. The third cat is going to do whatever he can to get to the deputy or even leader spot, and the deputy will want to do whatever they can to become leader. It would be a pretty bloody Clan. And besides, what if I want to control my own life, but still have the safety of a Clan?" Patchfur meowed.
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Gosh
Young Warrior
noisy cricket {1}[M:160]
Friends, as they say, may come and go, but high-powered laser weapons are forever.%\1\%
Posts: 791
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Post by Gosh on May 13, 2009 6:57:32 GMT -5
"Granted," Spiderpaw meowed. "There will be power - hungry cats. With an organized Clan, more organized than yours, we would be able to quell those cats, whether by expelling them from the Clan or by different methods. You keep arguing the same point, Patchfur, but remember that you will have experiences - good or bad - of the Clan most Clanners believe in in the upcoming experiment." She said this casually, hoping to attract the attention of Fadedpelt, or even Shortwhisker.
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Post by duckyaisha on May 13, 2009 19:34:12 GMT -5
Patchfur nodded. "Yes, but it would be just as easy to stop those power-hungry cats in my version of a Clan. The reason I think a leader-dominated Clan would be more violent is because in a Clan without a leader, there will be no angry feelings since no one will be chosen above anyone else. No one will be a higher rank than anyone else, besides the apprentice-kit-warrior rank. The power-hungry cats can still be defeated. Simply not having a leader doesn't mean we aren't as strong as a Clan with a leader. And yes, I know what we'll be doing in the experiment, but I can still choose to believe what I want, correct?"
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