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Post by haste on Dec 13, 2010 1:36:17 GMT -5
I absolutely adore the concept you have here, though I have a few questions after reading through the R&I board. I apologise if anything I ask here has already been explained in those boards - I probably missed it or completely forgot. xP
Why would RiverClan's former leader + deputy (you know, the ones that were in love) go so far as to trap their entire Clan in the enclosure? It's not like they knew for sure that their Clan would survive and animals would get in for them to eat. Was their love so important to them that they would risk the lives of the rest of the Clan? If yes, how and why? Also, from your description of their reasoning, it seems that they felt no guilt and disliked their Clan (as they wanted it as a "slap to the face" for following these restrictive traditions). These cats were their friends and family; why so bitter and uncaring towards them because of traditions they were raised to believe in?
After re-reading over the above, I must also ask: Did they eat rats/hares/etc. when they were bipedal creatures, or did they hunt bigger prey? If they hunted bigger prey, the leader + deputy must have known no usual prey could get into the enclosure. So, if anything, their Clan would have to rely on small prey, which would mean they'd get much less food and possibly starve from malnutrition. Were the leader + deputy psychopaths? Whilst on the topic of food, how did they hunt?
You also say that language is "one of their few surviving remnants of civilization" - what are the other remnants of civilization? On that note, civilization is defined by the dictionary as "the social process whereby societies achieve an advanced stage of development and organization", so what made them so advanced in their development/organisation? Did they ever have any sort of weapons, like crude spears and knives and such? Huts or anything, for homes? If not, what made them advanced?
The present time is apparently "decades" from when the enclosure was built - do you have an (even vague) idea of how many decades? This is important to me as I'm wondering how long it took for the cats to devolve. If it isn't a very long amount of time, I don't quite understand how this would work. Evolution takes hundreds to thousands to millions of years, so I'd assume devolution would do the same. I understand that it's not an extreme devolute, as they were only near-human and now they are completely not-human, but it would still take a long time. Or was this an extremely fast devolution - and if it was, what caused it to be so fast? Hell, what caused them to devolute? Simply being trapped in a closed-in space would hardly cause this, I think (though I may be wrong), especially seeing as the enclosure is quite large, even with them being humanoids. Was it simply because of the food shortages that required them to be smaller? Why did they revert back to having four legs (assuming that their bipedal ancestors evolved from four-legged creatures)?
Do the cats have any memory of their ancestors once being bipedal and such, too? They still know they're the descendants of RiverClan, so I would think they do. If they do, what are some of their opinions on their unusual changes in body structure? If they don't know, how do they think they created the enclosure? They know that their ancestors were betrayed by their leader + deputy, as the two trapped the Clan in the enclosure (or do they no longer know how they were betrayed?), so they must know that the enclosure was created by their ancestors.
Ten has also mentioned that the enclosure is the cats' whole world/universe and such, and some cats don't even believe the outside world exists. If so, they don't believe the story of the leader + deputy betraying their ancestor Clan and do not believe RiverClan ever existed (or, if it did, it had always lived in the enclosure). How would they think the Clan got split up/the betrayal happened, if they actually did believe these things but think nothing is outside the enclosure? Or do they just think these are both stories that everyone but they believe? Why don't they believe the stories if everyone else does?
Are there any trees in the enclosure, or shrubbery of any kind? Do they ever have hail/snow/sleet (they're in a desert, so I don't see why they would)? (You can ignore the rest of this paragraph if they have both.) I ask this because some cats have names that would not make sense of the cats had never seen things - bark, hail, sleet, wood. Ten's suggestions even include them: ice, sallow, stick, twig, branch, tree. I understand that even if there are no trees in the enclosure, the enclosure itself is made out of branches and boulders (as said in "The Plot") - but how are the cats to know what in the world a branch is, and where it comes from? There could be stories about trees and hail and whatnot but over the years I'd assume the truth in them would start to slip away and they'd become silly fairytale things, and so the cats wouldn't actually know what they are. These names would therefore be going by what the cats have been told are trees/sleet/whatever, and not what they really are. If there aren't these things but they still know what they are... I don't understand how the stories or whatever have not been tempered with by time.
Also, finally, if RiverClan existed, did the other three Clans exist? If they did, why didn't they do anything about RiverClan being trapped by their leader + deputy?
That's it, I think. I sincerely apologise for this being so terribly long, I didn't mean it to be. D: I'm just confused/curious about these things and would really like to know. Answers to some will patch up those plotholes in my mind, answers to others will make me feel as if I understand the world/history more. c:
Thank you in advance!
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Post by Cloud on Dec 13, 2010 18:58:54 GMT -5
Hmmm, never thought I'd see the day when TEN's work was the one being criticized. XD However, I'm fairly certain she can answer all your questions. I can answer a few:
There are no growing things of any kind in the enclosure; there is not enough sunlight.
I'm not sure about the walls, but I think the answer is that they remember because it's part of their language: even if they don't really know why it's called that, they do so.
It's all right, questions are welcome here~ :3 Ten is the Queen of Questioning.
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Post by Ten on Dec 13, 2010 20:43:52 GMT -5
Hmmm, never thought I'd see the day when TEN's work was the one being criticized. You're just young.  I get plenty of criticism on my writing irl (both for essays and creative work). This isn't the first time someone's pointed out a few things about the Starless plot, either. But yes, inquisitive as I am, I tend to be on the other side of the questions. Anyway. Welcome to Starless, Haste. I don't have much time today, but I'll see how much I can answer before I have to go (I should have a lot of time on my hands after Wednesday, though). Why would RiverClan's former leader + deputy (you know, the ones that were in love) go so far as to trap their entire Clan in the enclosure? It's not like they knew for sure that their Clan would survive and animals would get in for them to eat. Was their love so important to them that they would risk the lives of the rest of the Clan? If yes, how and why? Also, from your description of their reasoning, it seems that they felt no guilt and disliked their Clan (as they wanted it as a "slap to the face" for following these restrictive traditions). These cats were their friends and family; why so bitter and uncaring towards them because of traditions they were raised to believe in? Those traditions wouldn't allow them to freely express their love lust for one another (it's against the warrior code for a female leader to have kits). With the Clan putting their leadership on a pedestal, so to speak, they felt very isolated from their Clanmates and had a stronger bond with each other than with anyone else (their parents were dead, they had no other friends because being chatty with a leader or deputy would be considered insolence, and of course they couldn't have kits). Seeing the Clan as beneath them, they weren't worried about ensuring their survival when they ditched them. Their mentality was "Who are they to push us together and then shame us for the bond that results?" So, since they didn't want the Clan to go on, does that answer your second paragraph/question as well? And if the answer's no, I'll take a second look at it. You also say that language is "one of their few surviving remnants of civilization" - what are the other remnants of civilization? ahaha, I guess I didn't think that one through. Kudos. hm.... I suppose the naming traditons, the idea of Clanhood, and respect for kits, elderly, and the dead? On that note, civilization is defined by the dictionary as "the social process whereby societies achieve an advanced stage of development and organization", so what made them so advanced in their development/organisation? Did they ever have any sort of weapons, like crude spears and knives and such? Huts or anything, for homes? If not, what made them advanced? Oh, I didn't mean civilization in terms of technology so much as not being complete barbarians. Perhaps they would have worn (extra) furs and wielded clubs (although they did already have claws), but they weren't advanced. The present time is apparently "decades" from when the enclosure was built - do you have an (even vague) idea of how many decades? This is important to me as I'm wondering how long it took for the cats to devolve. If it isn't a very long amount of time, I don't quite understand how this would work. Evolution takes hundreds to thousands to millions of years, so I'd assume devolution would do the same. I understand that it's not an extreme devolute, as they were only near-human and now they are completely not-human, but it would still take a long time. Or was this an extremely fast devolution - and if it was, what caused it to be so fast? Hell, what caused them to devolute? Simply being trapped in a closed-in space would hardly cause this, I think (though I may be wrong), especially seeing as the enclosure is quite large, even with them being humanoids. Was it simply because of the food shortages that required them to be smaller? Why did they revert back to having four legs (assuming that their bipedal ancestors evolved from four-legged creatures)? I had thought of it as being two or three decades, which now that you point it out, makes little evolutionary sense. At least it's better than the previous pathetic excuse. >< Let's see. How many changes did they undergo? They had to keep pliable lips for language... and they had fur, cat ears, tails, etc. to begin with.... They could still have a thumb-like digit, though less functional as before. Less food would be a good reason for the size decrease. As for why the shift to four legs, it occurs to me that in order to answer that, I would need to know why any species would evolve to walk on two legs. Do you know anything about that? Maybe you can help me. Do the cats have any memory of their ancestors once being bipedal and such, too? They can, if they've been told about it. Same goes with the idea of plants, clouds, birds, etc. If they do, what are some of their opinions on their unusual changes in body structure? None of the characters so far have really cared, actually. x3 What they think of it would depend on the cat -- it's not as controversial as Clanhood and no one has ever talked about it in role play, to my knowledge, but if anyone wanted they could put something about this in a cat's Views section. Ten has also mentioned that the enclosure is the cats' whole world/universe and such, and some cats don't even believe the outside world exists. If so, they don't believe the story of the leader + deputy betraying their ancestor Clan and do not believe RiverClan ever existed (or, if it did, it had always lived in the enclosure). How would they think the Clan got split up/the betrayal happened, if they actually did believe these things but think nothing is outside the enclosure? Or do they just think these are both stories that everyone but they believe? Bronzefoot is our only nilly at the moment, I think, so Gosh can answer your questions on this more specifically to his character, but the general idea is that they think the whole thing is made up (including RiverClan and the betrayal) and that the enclosure has always been there. Why don't they believe the stories if everyone else does? ahaha. That is the question, isn't it? Why do people have different opinions? Fortunately or unfortunately, everyone else believing in Opinion A is not always enough to make a man agree with Opinion A. Are there any trees in the enclosure, or shrubbery of any kind? Do they ever have hail/snow/sleet (they're in a desert, so I don't see why they would)? It does not snow in the enclosure, but sometimes rain and freezing temperatures combine, so they have encountered hail. The walls are made from tree branches, so having these as normal parts of life, they would know those words just as well as they would know the word for rock and cat. Also, finally, if RiverClan existed, did the other three Clans exist? The RiverClan of the plot is not supposed to be the same as Erin Hunter's RiverClan. They had no neighbor Clans. That's it, I think. I sincerely apologise for this being so terribly long, I didn't mean it to be. D: I'm just confused/curious about these things and would really like to know. Answers to some will patch up those plotholes in my mind, answers to others will make me feel as if I understand the world/history more. c: Thank you in advance! You're quite welcome, and thank you for asking. ^^ A lot of guests pass through here, but few of them ever drop a message, so it's a treat when they do; I don't mind the length at all. Finding out the answers is always better than leaving the questions to fester. Feel free to post again if you have more. |
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Gosh
Young Warrior
noisy cricket {1}[M:160]
Friends, as they say, may come and go, but high-powered laser weapons are forever.%\1\%
Posts: 791
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Post by Gosh on Dec 13, 2010 22:14:52 GMT -5
Bronzefoot is our only nilly at the moment, I think, so Gosh can answer your questions on this more specifically to his character, but the general idea is that they think the whole thing is made up (including RiverClan and the betrayal) and that the enclosure has always been there. Yeah, that's basically it. Bronzefoot believes that the story of RiverClan is just a fable and that the enclosure has always existed. |
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