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Post by Cloud on Apr 25, 2010 18:45:22 GMT -5
-is with Ducky though she won't be participating in that debate-
-apologizes sincerely to Ten or being such a hypocritical idiot, and slinks off in shame-
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Post by Ten on Apr 26, 2010 21:53:46 GMT -5
...further define "such basics". Alright. Justice, compassion, peace, growth, conscience/responsibility, etc. ...? They all fall under a general umbrella of stuff that most people agree is good. "And its premise isn't just being polite, it's trying to bring people together and help everyone find what they believe in, whatever that is." -- So... the thing everyone has in common is a commitment to disagreeing with one another? "Just because we don't all believe in God or something doesn't mean we're not a religion." -- Of course a god isn't required for a religion. However, it does require some elements such as stances on the soul, the existence or nonexistence of an afterlife, the existence or nonexistence of any non-deity spiritual beings, and so on. What does UUism disagree with other religions on? Militancy doesn't count. "...please can we just leave it here?" -- o-o The second. I would like a debate on something other than religion please. I won't make any promises. Let's see. As far as I know, liberals believe.... - the death penalty should be abolished. I'm cool with that.
- the government should regulate companies and enforce ethical business(?). Sounds good.
- teachers deserve higher salaries. Yes.
- kids shouldn't be required to pray in school. Okay.
- homosexuals should be able to marry each other. I'm not a fan of this. This issue is less of a priority for me, though.
- humans are causing climate change. -shrug-
- regular civilians shouldn't have guns. Um. Hi. I'm from Texas.
- poor people need welfare checks. Yeah, some do. Not everyone who's getting them deserves them, though.
- health insurance and health care are basic rights. Nah. They're awesome to have, but they're not rights.
- it's nobody's business if a woman wants to kill her unborn kid. Now I'm no fan of babies, but this is wrong.
- affirmative action is awesome. No it's not. It's racism.
[/size] [/li][/ul] Out of these, my main interests are the issues of affirmative action and abortion. Feel free to pursue any of these topics, though, or any others. "apologizes sincerely to Ten or being such a hypocritical idiot" -- More fun to be on the other side of the pointed questions, huh? ;) 'Skay. You had me confused; see, you kept bringing up your own beliefs, so they seemed fair game for discussion. Suggestion: don't talk about religion if you don't want to talk about religion. |
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Post by Cloud on Apr 27, 2010 6:04:53 GMT -5
X-X Permission to despise myself utterly?
"Feel free to pursue any of these topics, though, or any others."
I wish Ducky luck, she's a brave person. -watches from waaaaaaaay back in the sidelines with a large fort covering her and spikes on top of it-
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Post by duckyaisha on Apr 27, 2010 6:55:51 GMT -5
the death penalty should be abolished. I'm cool with that.
the government should regulate companies and enforce ethical business(?). Sounds good.
teachers deserve higher salaries. Yes.
kids shouldn't be required to pray in school. Okay.
homosexuals should be able to marry each other. I'm not a fan of this. This issue is less of a priority for me, though.
humans are causing climate change. -shrug-
regular civilians shouldn't have guns. Um. Hi. I'm from Texas.
poor people need welfare checks. Yeah, some do. Not everyone who's getting them deserves them, though.
health insurance and health care are basic rights. Nah. They're awesome to have, but they're not rights.
it's nobody's business if a woman wants to kill her unborn kid. Now I'm no fan of babies, but this is wrong.
affirmative action is awesome. No it's not. It's racism.
---x---
About Welfare and Healthcare-
If a poor person is on Welfare, they can afford basic food and shelter, correct? So they basically live off that money, and maybe a little extra if they have a job. Even if they were the ones who screwed up their life and are lazy slackers, does that mean they should die? Because if they're that poor, they probably can't afford food without Welfare.
And what about their children? Should their children suffer for the mistakes their parents made? I think everyone deserves to have basic food and shelter.
Now for healthcare. I believe that everyone who is sick should get treated. If a woman is dying of cancer and can't get treated, should she just die? Everyone needs to be healed when they are sick. Like I said earlier, no one deserves to die of something that could be cured. Health insurance just makes it possible for people who have to have expensive treatments to pay for them and not be in debt. I don't think it's morally right to let people die because they couldn't pay for treatment, or for them to be cured and have to spend the rest of their life paying off debt.
I have no idea what affirmative action is, please inform me.
Abortion....I really don't know what to think on that. If two teenagers were being irresponsible, it's their own fault. If you do not want a baby, don't have sex, or use birth control, or something. It isn't that hard.
The only time I believe it's okay to have an abortion is if the mother is at risk.
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Post by Cloud on Apr 27, 2010 15:04:38 GMT -5
:X I don't think it's ideal, but it has to be done sometimes. Yes, it's horrible, but hey, you want the baby to be alive just so it has to suffer? And the mom has to suffer? Besides, overpopulation is already an issue. People should be more responsible, yes. It's rather simple.
I also rather detest the people who murder doctors over it. Hypocrites.
I wouldn't have said anything, but...-couldn't resist putting in her two cents-
-runs away permanently from thread-
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Post by Ten on Apr 27, 2010 18:17:47 GMT -5
Even if they were the ones who screwed up their life and are lazy slackers, does that mean they should die? It means they should get a job and take care of their own business. People who don't deserve welfare = people who could support themselves in other ways, but choose to take money from government instead "Should their children suffer for the mistakes their parents made?" -- Suffering children don't deserve to be stuck in their biological parents' custody. "I think everyone deserves to have basic food and shelter." -- You've heard of food banks, charities, Goodwill, etc., yes? "If a woman is dying of cancer and can't get treated, should she just die?" -- Considering what Cloud says on abortion... Besides, overpopulation is already an issue. ...does this mean you two disagree on whether all people deserve to live, or does this mean you both discriminate based on age? As for my answer for you, Ducky, I'm assuming you mean a woman who is too poor to purchase insurance and has a type of cancer that is curable and that is still at a curable stage. I don't know much about cancer and treatment options, but aren't there organizations who take care of this sort of thing? As it is, there are people without insurance, so as it is, I'm sure there must be someone addressing the problem you have in mind. Everyone needs to be healed when they are sick. The question is, with treatment paid for by whom? "I have no idea what affirmative action is, please inform me." -- My understanding of it is that it's giving preferential treatment to minorities. Not equal. Preferential. The argument for this might be that it's to protect them from all the racists who would discriminate against them otherwise and it's supposed makes up for all the decades of legal oppression to their ancestors. Hiring from certain groups to fill quotas and looking at minority status on a college application as a special merit to add diversity to the school are examples of how affirmative action works. It's discriminating based on skin color and lineage; changing which groups you do it to doesn't make it less wrong. That's my take on it. It's a biased explanation, so you might want to poke around the internetses yourself for more information. "If two teenagers were being irresponsible, it's their own fault." -- If two adults were being irresponsible, it's their own fault too. Plus, an ultrasound can tell the mother which gender the baby is, and it's possible to abort the kind of baby you don't want. There are women who would do that. I don't think it's ideal, but it has to be done sometimes. Yes, it's horrible, but hey, you want the baby to be alive just so it has to suffer? ...Are you saying that life is mainly suffering and that we'd all be better off dead? That doesn't sound like you, Cloud. "Besides, overpopulation is already an issue." -- That's right, folks. Abort your baby and go gay. Population problem: solved. "I also rather detest the people who murder doctors over it." -- mmhm, that's like John Brown, who murdered in the name of abolition of slavery. "I wouldn't have said anything, but...-couldn't resist putting in her two cents-" -- You're acting like you've stolen from the cookie jar. It's just a discussion, miss. You're free to discuss. |
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Post by Cloud on Apr 27, 2010 22:22:46 GMT -5
...Ten, you tempt me to answer you, you really do. But I'm not feeling suicidal, thanks. :x And you know as well as I do that we would go...roughly nowhere. And probably worse than nowhere. And then things would all be my fault again.  Not a favorable situation. 'You're free to discuss." -snorts- And be metaphorically stomped on, throttled, and thrown in a trash can. There's nothing you can do to convince me it's worth discussing such dangerous topics where I shall almost certainly be beaten into submission and regret I ever said anything. ;P RULE THE SEVENTH IN THE BOOK OF CLOUD: Never argue with Ten. Ever again. Or shall I henceforth prove myself to be a deluded idiot. ;P Can't break my laws, yo. |
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Post by duckyaisha on Apr 28, 2010 7:01:19 GMT -5
It means they should get a job and take care of their own business. People who don't deserve welfare = people who could support themselves in other ways, but choose to take money from government instead
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Sometimes people can't get jobs.
"You've heard of food banks, charities, Goodwill, etc., yes?"
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Yes, but Welfare also helps those people.
"As for my answer for you, Ducky, I'm assuming you mean a woman who is too poor to purchase insurance and has a type of cancer that is curable and that is still at a curable stage. I don't know much about cancer and treatment options, but aren't there organizations who take care of this sort of thing? As it is, there are people without insurance, so as it is, I'm sure there must be someone addressing the problem you have in mind."
Usually the ones who don't have insurance are the ones that can pay for it or don't have such a condition. Doctors still have to treat these people, but in this case the woman will be paying off her expensive treatment for the rest of her life. Is that fair? She didn't ask for cancer. She didn't do anything to deserve it.
I personally do not mind paying higher taxes so someone can be cured. It's the right thing to do.
I don't agree with affirmative action either, from what you said. It's still discrimination.
"If two adults were being irresponsible, it's their own fault too. Plus, an ultrasound can tell the mother which gender the baby is, and it's possible to abort the kind of baby you don't want. There are women who would do that."
That happens in China often, I've heard. Now that people can get abortions, women will abort their female babies.
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Post by Ten on Apr 28, 2010 18:37:36 GMT -5
'You're free to discuss." -snorts- And be metaphorically stomped on, throttled, and thrown in a trash can. Cloud makes me sad. Sometimes people can't get jobs. Why not? Physical or mental disability? Those aren't the folks who are undeserving. "Yes, but Welfare also helps those people." -- Obvious. "Doctors still have to treat these people, but in this case the woman will be paying off her expensive treatment for the rest of her life. Is that fair? She didn't ask for cancer. She didn't do anything to deserve it." -- It sucks, but that's life. I don't see how it's unfair. "I personally do not mind paying higher taxes so someone can be cured. It's the right thing to do." -- Can you impersonally mind? There are a lot of thing that you can argue are the right thing to do, such as donating to charities and not cheating on your spouse. Should the government be that harsh about legislating morality, that citizens have no choice but to give up all the money they don't need for dire necessities and to be penalized, fined, or even jailed for affairs? "Now that people can get abortions," -- You make it sound like abortion is new. |
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Post by duckyaisha on Apr 29, 2010 6:36:50 GMT -5
There are a lot of thing that you can argue are the right thing to do, such as donating to charities and not cheating on your spouse. Should the government be that harsh about legislating morality, that citizens have no choice but to give up all the money they don't need for dire necessities and to be penalized, fined, or even jailed for affairs?
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Many people donate to charities already, they don't need the government to tell them to. Cheating on your spouse won't kill anyone, unless they go insane. A little more taxes to pay in order to save someone's life isn't a big deal for me. If they can't afford it, should they die, or have to spend the rest of their life paying off debt? And no, of course I'm not saying that we should give up all our money, but I think paying a few more cents on your taxes to save someone's life isn't a bad idea.
"It sucks, but that's life. I don't see how it's unfair."
Because paying a little bit more on your taxes could've prevented it.
"Why not? Physical or mental disability? Those aren't the folks who are undeserving."
Because of unemployment. If unemployment rates are high, some people are going to be jobless even if they're perfectly fine.
"You make it sound like abortion is new."
It isn't? -feels incredibly stupid-
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