the holy city, and people and places.

[Cloud]

Jerusalem, neh? Or at least the Jews, Muslims, and Christians think so...some more than others.

So I've been learning about the origin of those three religions in history class. Even though I'm agnostic and all, they intrigue me greatly. I mean, these things shape the lives of millions of people and impact society as we know it every day in huge ways. Who wouldn't be curious?

Plus, I always like to keep an open mind. I never know, I could be wrong and someone else could know all the secrets of the universe and why purple is purple and why words are fun to play around with.

I has questions, though. Lots and lots of them. Which my history teacher won't answer because it slows down class and we're behind anyway. And I can't really talk to anyone at my school about it because to be perfectly honest, I probably know everyone here better than I do 99% of them.

So. Questions.

If Muhammad went back to conquer Mecca to thus have more followers and proclaim that what he believed was Right and Good, why did he get all smashity on the many Arabian god relief thingies? Not a great way to make people like him, just saying.

Yeah sure God could've told him to do it so that the the people of Mecca would be all "OHEY! If this dude did this, why then he must be right and we're all crazy! Let's follow him!" And thus the false idols would be obliterated, bla bla.

I still don't get it. It would've been much easier (and make less people mad) to peacefully preach and gain followers by convincing them and stuff. I thought this guy was smart.

Other question: If, as the Muslims, Christians, and Jews believe, there is no god but God, why were people worshipping multiple ones anyway? Were they all crazy/deluded? I mean they must've had SOME reason for worshipping many gods. If God were smart, he would've appeared to the first people and been all "Here I am, I exist, I made everything, worship me because I am cool."

Everyone would've believed in him because well who could deny that? EVERYONE would've seen him.

But no, he instead chose various men (never a woman, of course)
to spread his message because they were the chosen people and blabbity blah. I find a few things wrong with this.

Namely, why should he have a chosen people when I KNOW it's preached that everyone is equal in God's eyes. It's one of the reasons Christianty was so appealing. Having a chosen people is just going to cause problems, in my opinion. It's like saying "Oh, everyone is equal, but these people are special because I like them the most." Little contradictory there.

Because it's almost certain that disputes will arise over it, or the chosen people will abuse their chosen-ness, or whatever. Or people will feel inferior. And apparently God loves everyone (so we're told) so why would he do that? He's smart, right? Couldn't he tell if he is oh so Wise and Powerful that that would cause problems?


If there are any mistakes in my questions, let me know. I'm remembering this as best I can from my history textbook.

Also, if this offends anyone, I apologize. Ten encouraged me to make this, so. I'm really not trying to offend anyone, I'm just curious and am hoping I can get some answers.

And if anyone's wondering what religion I am, it's Unitarian Universalist. Which is technically derived from Christianity, but there are Buddhist UUs and Jewish UUs so.

I like my religion because it's not strict and I don't HAVE to believe in anything, which suits me well because I'm unsure about religions in general and I question everything. However, I do respect other religions. A lot. Trust me.

-disappears in a puff of fog-

[duckyaisha]

I think the reason Muhammad went back and smashed all the statue-thingies was because if people who believed other religions worshipped those statue-things as physical manifestations of their gods, (or for whatever reason they worshipped them, I don't know) and he smashed them all, they would have no choice but to follow his religion.

I also think (though I'm not Christian so I might be wrong) that God is a spirit, not really a person. I don't think he has a definite physical form, which is why he chooses people to spread his word.

[Cloud]

Oh, really? I technically am Christian (because my religion derives from Christianity) but I don't know any more about it than you do. What I do is that finding flaws in the bible is fun.

I.e, where did those wives come from? And how come it was all Eve's fault? If God were smart, he would not have said "don't eat from this tree" and then PUT IT RIGHT IN THE FLIPPING GARDEN. Is he stupid, or did he not think about what his creations were like?

Supposing he exists. I'm pretty skeptical of the whole thing myself, idk about the rest of you besides Ducky who is an atheist. -Duckyhuggle-

[Ten]

Apr 15, 2010 22:48:53 GMT -5 Cloud said:

Also, if this offends anyone, I apologize. Ten encouraged me to make this, so. I'm really not trying to offend anyone, I'm just curious and am hoping I can get some answers.

You said you were learning about Jerusalem in history class and that you had some questions/comments on it, so I told you I'd like to discuss it with you. Now about those answers... I'll see what I can do.


"If Muhammad went back to conquer Mecca to thus have more followers and proclaim that what he believed was Right and Good, why did he get all smashity on the many Arabian god relief thingies? Not a great way to make people like him, just saying."
--
mm, I'm neither Muslim nor knowledgeable in Islam, so I don't have a total understanding of what you're talking about. My guess is that he tore apart the shrines to false gods because they're bad and he wanted to stop people from worshiping them. It's not about trying to get people to like you. It's about what you believe in.

At least, that's the case if you're an earnest whatever and not just a fraud who wants to stir up a cult.


"Yeah sure God could've told him to do it so that the the people of Mecca would be all "OHEY! If this dude did this, why then he must be right and we're all crazy! Let's follow him!" And thus the false idols would be obliterated, bla bla.

I still don't get it. It would've been much easier (and make less people mad) to peacefully preach and gain followers by convincing them and stuff. I thought this guy was smart."
--
Not saying he isn't, but why did you think he was smart? Does it say that somewhere?

Maybe making people mad was the point? /doesn't know. As they say, no PR is bad PR... Being peaceful doesn't get you much attention.


"Other question: If, as the Muslims, Christians, and Jews believe, there is no god but God, why were people worshipping multiple ones anyway?"
--
I'm confused. You're asking why polytheists existed at the same time as monotheists? Were all the Abrahamics supposed to gang up and kill them all if they didn't stop believing in multiple gods?

Or maybe you thought the Abrahamics were worshiping multiple gods in addition to God at the same time. mm... I can think of numerous instances where the ancient Jews of the Old Testament (Torah?) turned away from God and became more sinful than usual with their whatever local false gods they could find so much that theistic sluttiness would be a good way to describe it. Is that what you're talking about?

That was before Islam or Christianity, though.


"Were they all crazy/deluded?"
--
Some of them had to be. I recall one polytheistic ritual was to set your child on fire.


"I mean they must've had SOME reason for worshipping many gods."
--
But of course. Polytheism was very popular; everybody did it. It's appealing to try and fit in.


"If God were smart, he would've appeared to the first people and been all "Here I am, I exist, I made everything, worship me because I am cool.""
--
x) Cloud. You act like He hasn't done that.


"Everyone would've believed in him because well who could deny that?"
--
You give people too much credit.


"But no, he instead chose various men (never a woman, of course)
to spread his message because they were the chosen people and blabbity blah."
--
I'm not sure what you're thinking of as criteria for message-spreaders, but there are a few important women in the Bible (I like Ester and Deborah in particular; you know them?). I don't know that there were any women who were prophets, though. Who would want to be a prophet, anyway? Rough life. There's always some king trying to kill you.

Also, one important thing to consider is that, seeing as God didn't write the Bible himself, what went into the records was subject to whatever the men at the time felt like publishing to the world. Considering that, it's amazing that Deborah's story even made it in.


"Namely, why should he have a chosen people when I KNOW it's preached that everyone is equal in God's eyes."
--
Welll, I don't know about that. He loves everyone, but does that make them equal?

God's not Patchfur.


"It's one of the reasons Christianty was so appealing. Having a chosen people is just going to cause problems, in my opinion. It's like saying "Oh, everyone is equal, but these people are special because I like them the most." Little contradictory there."
--
hm. Perhaps. You know about Abraham, yes? And the deal that God made with him? That might account for some of it.


"Because it's almost certain that disputes will arise over it, or the chosen people will abuse their chosen-ness, or whatever. Or people will feel inferior. And apparently God loves everyone (so we're told) so why would he do that? He's smart, right? Couldn't he tell if he is oh so Wise and Powerful that that would cause problems?"
--
Free will alone causes problems.


"And if anyone's wondering what religion I am, it's Unitarian Universalist. Which is technically derived from Christianity, but there are Buddhist UUs and Jewish UUs so."
--
So how is that a religion?


"I like my religion because it's not strict and I don't HAVE to believe in anything,"
--
...hence my question.

Apr 16, 2010 6:37:16 GMT -5 duckyaisha said:

I think the reason Muhammad went back and smashed all the statue-thingies was because if people who believed other religions worshipped those statue-things as physical manifestations of their gods, (or for whatever reason they worshipped them, I don't know) and he smashed them all, they would have no choice but to follow his religion.

Or they could all get mad and run him out of the city. Like I said, the life of a prophet is rough.

I can't remember anything Mr. Muhammad was supposed to have prophesized, though.

Apr 16, 2010 6:37:16 GMT -5 duckyaisha said:

I also think (though I'm not Christian so I might be wrong) that God is a spirit, not really a person. I don't think he has a definite physical form, which is why he chooses people to spread his word.

He's not a person in the sense of a human person. He does have some sort of form (I don't know if you could call it physical) but reports indicate that looking at Him is... not healthy, it seems.

Apr 16, 2010 14:40:32 GMT -5 Cloud said:

Oh, really? I technically am Christian (because my religion derives from Christianity) but I don't know any more about it than you do. What I do is that finding flaws in the bible is fun.

Technically, to be technically Christian means that you, at minimum, believe Jesus is Christ. I'm skeptical about you being Christian.


"I.e, where did those wives come from?"
--
Who? Cain's wife? Yeah, that's a head-scratcher. My idea on that would be that after Adam and Eve, God kept on creating other people too. If you believe He created Adam at all, creating even more people from mud isn't a far-fetched idea.


"And how come it was all Eve's fault?"
--
uh... was it? o-o


"If God were smart, he would not have said "don't eat from this tree" and then PUT IT RIGHT IN THE FLIPPING GARDEN. Is he stupid, or did he not think about what his creations were like?"
--
Until then they weren't like that. That's the point.


"I'm pretty skeptical of the whole thing myself, idk about the rest of you besides Ducky who is an atheist" agnostic.
--
-hides marker-

[Cloud]

"My guess is that he tore apart the shrines to false gods because they're bad and he wanted to stop people from worshiping them."

Why? According to him, they didn't even exist. But people believed in them because...people believed in them, and according to my history book people didn't want to give their gods up because they attracted pilgrims who had money. I'm thinking he knew that, having grown up in Mecca.

And thus his brilliant solution was come back later with an army and smash the images of those gods. Yeah. Great way to win converts.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I think being persuasive and doing political stuff and putting arguments forth would've been better. Make less people want to kill him.

"Not saying he isn't, but why did you think he was smart? Does it say that somewhere?

Maybe making people mad was the point? /doesn't know. As they say, no PR is bad PR... Being peaceful doesn't get you much attention."

If God didn't want this to go wrong, he wouldn't have picked a dummy. And what's wrong with being peaceful? I thought God was all about love and understanding and stuff...though you couldn't tell that from the way some people behave. xD As Ghandi said, "I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. They are so unlike your Christ." Not true of all Christians, obviously, but you have to admit it has some substance.

Apologies if anyone finds that insulting. I find it funny.

"I'm confused. You're asking why polytheists existed at the same time as monotheists? Were all the Abrahamics supposed to gang up and kill them all if they didn't stop believing in multiple gods?

Or maybe you thought the Abrahamics were worshiping multiple gods in addition to God at the same time. mm... I can think of numerous instances where the ancient Jews of the Old Testament (Torah?) turned away from God and became more sinful than usual with their whatever local false gods they could find so much that theistic sluttiness would be a good way to describe it. Is that what you're talking about?

That was before Islam or Christianity, though."

Meh, sort of...I'm just wondering, why did God even let them believe in false gods? If he exists, that is...-skeptic-...mm, that's another thing I dislike in most monotheistic religions. God is almost always a guy. ._.

"Some of them had to be. I recall one polytheistic ritual was to set your child on fire."

...O.O well then.

"x) Cloud. You act like He hasn't done that."

Mm yeah I know he appeared to Adam and Eve (supposing they existed and supposing he existed) but still. If I were him I would've waited until there were more people and then appeared to all of them at once, instead of having various prophets over the years.

Who would eventually make religions who fought with each other. Whee.

"You give people too much credit."

This is possible.

" I'm not sure what you're thinking of as criteria for message-spreaders, but there are a few important women in the Bible (I like Ester and Deborah in particular; you know them?). I don't know that there were any women who were prophets, though. Who would want to be a prophet, anyway? Rough life. There's always some king trying to kill you.

Also, one important thing to consider is that, seeing as God didn't write the Bible himself, what went into the records was subject to whatever the men at the time felt like publishing to the world. Considering that, it's amazing that Deborah's story even made it in."

Yeah. I have no idea why people call the bible the word of God. God didn't write it, idiots.

I just remembered a funny pin I saw somewhere, "God made man in his image: homophobic, greedy, etc." I forget the other stuff, but it was funny.

"Welll, I don't know about that. He loves everyone, but does that make them equal?

God's not Patchfur."

He should be. Patchfur, I mean. Well, not really, but...you get my point.

And let me quote from my history book: "In the eyes of God, said Jesus, everyone was equal."

So either Jesus was lying or...God is a hypocrite? Idk.

"hm. Perhaps. You know about Abraham, yes? And the deal that God made with him? That might account for some of it."

Yes...but I have problems with that, too. Which I could describe more accurately if I could find the darn passage in my book that describes it.

"So how is that a religion?"

Uhm. We have a code of morals and churches?

"(I don't know if you could call it physical) but reports indicate that looking at Him is... not healthy, it seems."

-snorts- Says who? And why? You'd think considering he's supposed so Good that looking at him would be all awe-inspiring or something.

"I'm skeptical about you being Christian."

Don't blame you. xD I don't consider myself particularly Christian, it's just that UUism sprang from Christianity. Wait...I thought Christ was just Jesus's last name...what is Christ, then?

"Who? Cain's wife? Yeah, that's a head-scratcher. My idea on that would be that after Adam and Eve, God kept on creating other people too. If you believe He created Adam at all, creating even more people from mud isn't a far-fetched idea."

Mmm...I don't really believe in God anyway (though I do know I could always be wrong and he could exist) and the whole making people from mud thing (or a clot of congealed blood) just sounds kind of dumb, to be honest. I mean, people from mud? Mud =/= people. Evolution equals people.

If that is the case, then why doesn't the bible say so instead of leaving us all hanging? And why didn't he just make more people to begin with? Instead of his two guinea pigs who failed him. (So we're told, I think it's kind of his fault)

"uh... was it? o-o"

-snorts- Why do you think Catholicism pins sin on women? Gah, Catholicism. If ever there were a religion that hated women more...

"Until then they weren't like that. That's the point."

Then he should've been a smart little creator and not put the Serpent in the garden. I mean, that was just dumb. It's like he wanted them to get in trouble.

"agnostic.
--
-hides marker-"

...give me the whole explanation again as to why you don't believe in atheists. I sort of remember it, but I think Ducky'd like to hear, er, see it.

It's almost like you're saying she's not allowed to be an atheist, but I know you wouldn't say that. :3 -Tenhug-

[Ten]

Apr 17, 2010 14:56:04 GMT -5 Cloud said:

"My guess is that he tore apart the shrines to false gods because they're bad and he wanted to stop people from worshiping them."

Why? According to him, they didn't even exist.

You just answered yourself, miss.


"Maybe I'm wrong, but I think being persuasive and doing political stuff and putting arguments forth would've been better. Make less people want to kill him."
--
In some cases, with some people, persuasive argument is effective, yes. But come on, Cloud, you know how people can be about rejecting even the best arguments. You're looking at this as if the polytheists were all thoughtful, fair-minded people.

Even if plenty were that way, Mr. M saw them as pretty darn deluded to worship the gods they did, and decided that telling them how it is just wouldn't work for these folks. I'll hazard an example and compare it to going up to a rabid Twilight fan and saying "Hey, Edward is not a nice guy and you shouldn't like him." He just didn't want to try to reason with those people.

Whether he should have tried to or not, eh, I'll leave that to you because you know more of the context. I hope my guesses help you understand how he might have seen the situation, though.


"If God didn't want this to go wrong, he wouldn't have picked a dummy."
--
mm. If he picked any human at all, though, that person would have to be human, you know? -shrug-

So you're saying Mr. M is far more stupid than normal about gaining followers. Well, considering modern Muslim population, he hasn't done half bad as far as numbers go. If you want to criticize the actual religious tenets, go on to that, but his conversion tactics have proved effective in the long run.


"And what's wrong with being peaceful?"
--
I hate the "What's wrong with ____?" question, so I'll answer the question that you didn't ask.

In these cases, the tactical disadvantage to peacefulness is that it doesn't get you half as much attention. Case in point: how much news is about violence?

If you're working on the assumption that the people you're dealing with aren't going to come to your side on your own, there's no instantaneous tactical disadvantage to attacking them and showing others what you're willing to do to those that don't shape up. And yeah, that's bad to kill in the name of religion blah blah blah. That's not the point. I'm assuming his aim was to eliminate nonbelievers and create new ones with the power of fear. Am I off the mark?

And what's wrong with being peaceful has a lot of situational variables it depends on. Without aggravating circumstances, though, no objections come to mind.


"I thought God was all about love and understanding and stuff...though you couldn't tell that from the way some people behave."
--
A lot of people aren't God, miss. If May eats a bowl of rice, that doesn't mean I'm a vegetarian. What "some people" (who?) do doesn't have any necessary correlation to what God is like.


"As Ghandi said, "I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. They are so unlike your Christ." Not true of all Christians, obviously, but you have to admit it has some substance."
--
Oh yes, Christians are so sinful... and so are Jews, and Muslims, and agnostics, and Wiccans, and Animists...

Humans are so sinful.


"Meh, sort of...I'm just wondering, why did God even let them believe in false gods?"
--
It's called free will.
Are you saying it would be better if we didn't have it?


"-skeptic-"
--
We haven't forgotten from the last time you told us.


"...mm, that's another thing I dislike in most monotheistic religions. God is almost always a guy."
--
"He" sounds a lot better than "It".

I don't see a theological problem with calling the Abrahamic god a She, but I wouldn't want to. As for tradition, if it wasn't the patriarchal leaders who decided to use male pronouns for God, then I'm sure he would opt for assuming the gender that idiot humans would be more likely to respect Him as (plenty of women would follow a "male" god, but I'm thinking a significant portion of men - then as well as now - would be more hesitant to follow a "female" god, and that doesn't bother me in the least). It's not like it makes a big difference.

Anyway, other than for tradition, I prefer thinking of Him as male because it's easy for me to see men as the generic gender. I don't know how to explain that, though. Just... if He were a She, that would be too too. Male pronouns are more average. Not having anything to support this perception, I hope I don't argue with your disagreements.


"...O.O well then."
--
I don't remember where I got that idea.
Wait... I think it was from... uh, 2 Kings 17:27-40

www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2%20Kings%2017:27-40&version=NIV


"Mm yeah I know he appeared to Adam and Eve"
--
I get the impression you think that was the only time.


"(supposing they existed and supposing he existed):
--
How many times are you going to do that? I understand why and all, but it's repetitive and wordy. Let's just work on the assumption that we're discussing what others believe, not what you believe (go ahead and discuss what you believe, too, but some things you don't need to remind us of).


"If I were him I would've waited until there were more people and then appeared to all of them at once, instead of having various prophets over the years."
--
uh... So instead of continuing to remind people every few generations, he should have announced Himself once and then never again made any communication? What are you saying?


"Who would eventually make religions who fought with each other. Whee."
--
I get the feeling you're implying something, but none of my interpretations make sense.


"Yeah. I have no idea why people call the bible the word of God. God didn't write it, idiots."
--
Because the Bible records a bunch of things that God has said, silly goose. It's important to understand that humans recorded it and all, but they're still supposed to be quoting God in many instances.


"I just remembered a funny pin I saw somewhere, "God made man in his image: homophobic, greedy, etc." I forget the other stuff, but it was funny."
--
Greedy, eh, not sure how you figure that, but okay. As for homophobic... you're right; that is funny.

God's not scared of Slug.


"He should be. Patchfur, I mean."
--
o-o I would not want Patchfur in charge of the universe.


"And let me quote from my history book: "In the eyes of God, said Jesus, everyone was equal.""
--
hm. I don't recall where they would get that from, but it does depend on what you mean by equal.

God does have equal love for all ethnicities and ages and both genders and stuff like that, so if that's what you/the book mean by equal, then yes.


"Yes...but I have problems with that, too. Which I could describe more accurately if I could find the darn passage in my book that describes it."
--
This? www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis%2012&version=NIV


"Uhm. We have a code of morals and churches?"
--
People can have a code of morals without being religious.

What do you mean by churches? Buildings where people gather? That doesn't mean the people gathering are religious people.


"Says who?"
--
Says Paul, for one. I can't remember the other folks.


"And why?"
--
Some couple who saw him thought they were going to die; Paul (at that time, Saul) was only blinded for a few days.


"You'd think considering he's supposed so Good that looking at him would be all awe-inspiring or something."
--
I would think it would be... but when you get sick, do you eat your doctor?


"Wait...I thought Christ was just Jesus's last name..."
--
XD LAUGHED. SO. HARD.

No, no, no... In Jesus' time, people didn't have last names the way modern folks do. Beyond their first name, you identified people either by what their hometown was or who their dad was. So folks knew Jesus as "Jesus of Nazareth" or "Jesus, son of Joseph". If you're thinking "wait, he was born in Bethlehem" or "wait, Joseph wasn't his biological father" then yes, you're right, but neither of those affect what He was known as.


"what is Christ, then?"
--
mm... more or less means, at minimum, the chosen one, foretold by prophecy to come and do something important/be in charge/save everyone/something like that; I'm not sure -- there are a lot of religions that believe the Christ will come, so I don't know how to build a definition that fits all of their beliefs. "Christians" are the ones that that believe it's already happened once (but will again) and that the person was Jesus.


"I don't really believe in God anyway"
--
I was tempted to fake surprise here. For future reference, do you mind if I use sarcasm during this conversation? I don't expect I would do so much besides when you repeat yourself like this.


"...the whole making people from mud thing (or a clot of congealed blood) just sounds kind of dumb, to be honest. I mean, people from mud?"
--
What sounds sillier is a God who can't control the fabric of his own creation.

I could give you another analogy, but I feel like that would be trite.


"Evolution equals people."
--
Evolution equals adaptions in species over time. A species evolving doesn't mean it will turn into people.


"If that is the case, then why doesn't the bible say so instead of leaving us all hanging?"
--
Because it was written by humans, not God? Because they expected you to infer? Because they didn't know it themselves? -shrug- The way most of the books are written, they focus only on certain details and not on others. And keep in mind, this is Genesis you're talking about.


"And why didn't he just make more people to begin with?"
--
Does it say He didn't?

I'm thinking His plan was to let them reproduce on their own. Creating six billion people all at once sounds like a bad idea.


"Instead of his two guinea pigs who failed him. (So we're told, I think it's kind of his fault)"
--
Their choices are His fault?
mm, this goes back to my question for you on free will. I'll have to wait for what you say on that.


"Why do you think Catholicism pins sin on women?"
--
It does? o-o


"Gah, Catholicism. If ever there were a religion that hated women more..."
--
Never got that vibe from the Catholic folks I know.


"Then he should've been a smart little creator and not put the Serpent in the garden."
--
Did He?

Funny think about the Serpent. I'm not sure if the first version of the story went quite like that. Original-original Judaism didn't have a concept of an evil being in opposition to God, I've heard. So the start of that idea is its own subject.


"It's almost like you're saying she's not allowed to be an atheist, but I know you wouldn't say that."
--
Not allowed? What could I do, kick her off Starless? fff. Even if I were that much of a spastic freak, I couldn't afford to lose Ducky's characters. x)


"...give me the whole explanation again as to why you don't believe in atheists."
--
It's not much of an explanation.

I can't wrap my mind around the idea. It's human nature to doubt everything that you believe, to some degree. Even the Shortwhiskers have doubts. Just as people don't stay 100% convinced of their religion all the time, a person can't be 100% opposed to the idea of a god's existence all the time, which means the most a nonreligious person can be is agnostic (at least, by the common vernacular meaning... the actual meaning is something about believing God can't be proved one way or another).

Of course, many people think they're atheists and call themselves atheists, but they're not. That wouldn't make any sense. People need to eat; people need to breathe; people need to believe in things beyond themselves -- and of course, not believing in a god doesn't mean that you can't have beliefs in the spiritual or supernatural, but not believing in a god or deity or someone to that effect is the same as believing that human beings are the most powerful and intelligent beings on the planet, which is some terrible pessimism. Even if God were much less benevolent, I wouldn't want that to be true.

...Okay, that turned out to be something of an explanation. The more natural reason might be how the most adamant nonreligious folks I've known have been agnostics, and the few people I can think of who've identified themselves as atheists were rather apathetic about it the whole deal. I'm thinking you'd have to care more than than to commit yourself to atheism. Then again, I've heard of some adamant atheists, but they come off just like the fundamental folks of any other belief system (or political alignment) who are so theatrical that it's like they're not real -- that is, they're exaggerating themselves. And now I'm rambling again.

So. Give this ignorant buffoon some evidence for the existence of atheists? :B It's still going to be amusing to say they don't exist.

[duckyaisha]

God's not Patchfur."

He should be. Patchfur, I mean. Well, not really, but...you get my point.

---

Whee! Patchfur reference

--
"Wait...I thought Christ was just Jesus's last name..."

Wow, even I knew that.

"o-o I would not want Patchfur in charge of the universe."

Me neither. He's too hotheaded.

"Not allowed? What could I do, kick her off Starless? fff. Even if I were that much of a spastic freak, I couldn't afford to lose Ducky's characters. x)"

You're much too kind.


Judging by your explanation, Ten, I would technically be agnostic since I'm really apathetic about the whole idea of religion. I don't think that there's a God, but it's not like I spend my days parading it around and trying to convert people. In fact, I try to hide that from people. And even though I don't believe in God, I don't think humans are the smartest, most powerful beings in the universe. If we're so smart, why do we continue to kill our planet, even though it's been proven that what we're doing is killing it?

I've been to church a grand total of once (with a friend) so for the rest of my life, I've been listening to my parents say that there is no God, that we evolved from hominids like Lucy (can't remember her species) and that the Earth is billions of years old. A child learns their religion from their parents, and I'm the same way. What my parents believe, I believe, especially now that I've done more research on evolution (Specifically the evolution of dinosaurs to birds, since birds are a trillion times more interesting than humans.) and found information about intermediate fossils like archaeopteryx.
I don't care, I really do not care what religion people are. I accept all people regardless of religion, and if they want to believe in a higher power, then they can. The only problem I have with religion is when it leads to killing, discrimination, or the justification of immoral things based on the bible/koran/etc.

-My two cents

[Cloud]

"I hope my guesses help you understand how he might have seen the situation, though."

They do. Apologies for my stupid questions.

Apologies for my constant reminders of how I'm skeptic. I know realize they're annoying as heck and I apologize for that. e.e Bwah. /headdesk

As for all of what Ducky said, I'm with her.

Thank you Tenet for answering all my questions patiently and nicely. Glad I made you laugh hard.

[moddy]

"And apparently God loves everyone (so we're told) so why would he do that?"
okay, i'm a christian, but i'm still learning stuff. xD but i think.. it's not that he loved
them most or whatever, because i believe that he loves everyone equally(like you
said i think?) and that these certain people just happened to be doing really good
things so he could have saw potential in them? i don't know if that fights against
my purpose or not. i'm confusing myself a little, but okay. like.. if you ever read a
little into the bible, you would see how these people were people who showed a
lot of faith in him? like, how i remember it said that, ummm, this one guy would
have sacrificed his own kid because he trusted the lord enough and because of that
he didn't have to end up doing that. i don't know. i'm probably not making sense.
but if it does make sense, that's what i think. xD

[Cloud]

xD Okay, Moddy. Oh, and this is for Ten: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unitarian_Universalism